Supernatural Experiences - Real Conversations with Athiests

October 25, 2016

 

Though I don’t usually argue with atheists, I do get some flack every now and then for sharing my faith in the creator, and what has has done in my life. Here is comment I left on a video that depicted a debate titles: “Death is not Final”. I will depict the opposing view in ((double Parentheses)).

“People will reject what they don't understand. There are just some things that science can't explain. There are too many witnesses that speak of after death experience, out of body experiences, even supernatural ones. Perhaps some of them spoke of something they dreamed about, in particular a little girl saying that she saw Santa, or other things kids say. But the bottom line is this, you cannot argue with another person's genuine experience. I explained to many people how I heard from God, how I had an intimate experience with him through a biblical scenario such as the day of Pentecost. People think I'm crazy just like these scientists think this guy is crazy, but they cannot disprove his experience nor mine.

((Nobody is denying that you think it happened to you. The human mind can deceive us quite easily. The fact that Muslims have these spiritual experiences when praying to Allah, and Christians do while thinking they’re experiencing Jesus and a Mystic in a cave can have them, says absolutely nothing about whether or not the god you’re worshipping exists.))

Hi. Atheism is a belief too. You're equating this with religion. Religion and spirituality are two different things. Religion is how you interpret it. And your belief is that there is no such thing as a supernatural realm. That is your religion. And you have a right to that belief.

God? Which god? A good question, and it is a question you should ask. After all, if we are going to spend hours on hour knees reciting prayers, or taking our needs to God, we have to know who we are praying too, right?

While I would agree that just praying, in and of itself; is not the supernatural experience, let’s talk about where we disagree. Prayer is the key to get one, to open the door to supernatural experiences.

Here is something to think about. Anything can become a god, or as we would say a little 'g' god. The scriptures even entail how people would cut down trees, carve them, deck them with ornaments, silver, gold, and worship them. In ancient times, people would create statues to worship as gods, or that which represents what they would want their god to look like. Man has created God in his own image (in their minds) instead of the other way around. And you can talk about how absurd that is all day long, but even atheists are guilty of this same mentality as these people are when they say: “If there is a God then why do all the bad things happen in the world? It’s because there is no god.” or “If God exists then why does evil exist? It’s because he doesn’t exist.” and the list goes on. Funny isn’t it? He has to measure up to their standards in order to exist. Also, they say things like:

 “Something could not have been that powerful to create the universe,” or “Things are not perfect enough for there to have been a creator.” Funny isn’t it? Either the world is not perfect enough for there to have been a creator, or the world is too complicated to have been created. You just can’t win. But do you honestly think we can have a creation without the creator? And if we do have a creator, how can we know him? There is no strange god among us. The bottom line is: if you want to know who the maker is, ask him. You don’t have to pray to some name. It's not as complicated as you are making it. It's that simple.


((I don’t think you can qualify these as "supernatural experiences" but rather transcendent or numinous ones. Most humans can have these, and just because science can’t explain something doesn’t automatically mean that there’s another supernatural dimension with spirits and ghosts that we can’t see. It’s not sensible to believe this until there is evidence.))

Due to the fact that there are some things that science can’t explain should tell you something. It should indicate that there is something more than this physical world as we know it. That should also serve as evidence. But no amount of evidence is going to prove anything to anyone that has a made up mind that they wish to deny it exists.

((Spirituality is important in life, but it doesn’t come from revelation, but from within.))

This is what the New Age religion teaches, that the answer is found in one’s self. This is the opposite of what true Christianity teaches. Here is what the scriptures entail:

“A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.” –Proverbs 18:2

 

“He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But he who walks wisely will be delivered.” -Proverbs 21:26

 

Why is this true?

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
-Jeremiah 17:9  

 

((Atheism is lack of belief, it’s not a belief system in itself. If you make a claim some god exists in the sky without any actual evidence and I reject your claim, that makes me an atheist.))

But doesn’t a lack of belief in one thing require a belief in something else? I will list some examples. What are your beliefs concerning the origins of the universe? Macro-evolution, right? So that is your religion.

((It is Christians that assert that a god exists, and do so without any evidence.))


Here is what atheist fail to realize. We don't accept without evidence because he has already provided it. The question is whether or not you are willing to accept it or go your own way. There is a thing called "free will" that was given to us. But in order for him to give us what we ask for he wants our faith first, then the evidence follows. Why? Evidence doesn't change the composition of dead soiled hearts, dead hearts (as we all Christians have had) will always choose what they love and that is never Jesus. Not apart from a miracle.

To believe otherwise would be like an atheist saying that if you stir up organic stardust, within a billion years; it produces life. Evidence does not change the composition of dead soiled hearts. This could also be perfectly substantiated with the fact that not everyone believed in the evidence Jesus provided, though he walked on water, calmed the storms, healed amputees, opened up the eyes of the blind, fed thousands with three loaves and two fishes, turned water into wine, raised the dead, even predicted future events such as his death, burial and resurrection. Even some of his disciples doubted after he rose from the dead (there were 500 witnesses). But we do believe this gospel (death, burial, and resurrection) not just because of the historical evidence, the 500 witnesses, but because of the life change and fruit that it brings when it is obeyed.  For example (from my personal experience), you have to repent and believe you are going to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and seek him with your whole heart; before you can actually receive it with the evidence that follows. What is the evidence? Speaking in other tongues. a demonstrated in Acts 2:38. The truth is that he does provide evidence for us! But you have to believe before you can receive anything from God and that is a fact. This also draws the line between blind faith in an ideology and faith in God's word with works and miracles that follow.


If they aren’t going to believe the word of God, they won’t believe anyone, even if they died and rose again from the dead. – Luke 16:19-31

((Religion is not how you interpret spirituality,))

I beg to differ. Religion is a set of beliefs and/or practices. A belief in a creator is not required to have a religion. Macro-evolution is a religion. The New Age religion does not believe in a supreme creator, but is pantheistic.

((…you can be an atheist and be deeply spiritual, as many atheists I know.))
 

The real question is, what are these atheists putting their faith and trust in? Themselves? Man? Mother earth? The aliens? Macro-evolution? Other voices? Whatever you put your faith and trust in, that becomes your god.
 

((It’s not even a point of view, and we don’t assert there is no god, because it’s impossible to know.))

 

And I would have to disagree with your position in this "impossible to know" scenario. Here is why. Logically speaking there has to exist a prime mover. There's really no way around this unless you believe the universe is eternal which is generally a universally rejected idea. Even for those who believe in Macro-Evolution and the "Big Bang" (Which debunked also in many cases), you would still not be able to get around that. Think about this: If you believe in the Big Bang, we may not know what caused the "Big Bang" now but let's say some day we do. Well now that we figured out that "cause" we now have to figure out the "cause" that caused that. And then someday when we figure out the "cause" that caused the "cause" that created the Big Bang we then have to figure out the next "cause". The point is there will eventually be a point that you can go no further back because you will reach the very beginning of everything. At this point you will have reached The Prime Mover. Something or someone who has ALWAYS existed because they never needed a cause to be created in the first place. This Prime Mover would have been the one to start EVERYTHING. He is the one who would have started the entire chain of causation. The chain of causation that was responsible for the creation of the Big Bang, of the universe and us... Like I said, as long as you believe that the universe is not Eternal then there is no way around this. If you believe that the Universe had a beginning then you must also believe that there existed a prime mover who started EVERYTHING or you are being logically inconsistent.

((I’m sorry to say but if you think god spoke to you then I would say you’re delusional.))

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you can't take people's experiences away from them. It is obvious you have never experienced these miracles I speak of in your own life. But I have. So you tell me who the fool is. 


If you can hear from God, who cares what everyone else thinks? What matters is that you can hear from God. And if you find yourself physically shaken because of it, especially if you have been receiving the answers to what you've been praying for, that should count for something. 

 

((I wouldn’t say you’re crazy, but you are most likely very vulnerable and/or intellectually weak if you feel you need to believe in an eternal pseudo father figure that looks out for you and loves you.))

 

And I would say that one is very vulnerable and/or intellectually weak to not consider the possibility of a creator since you cannot have a design without a designer. Look at the world around you. Look at our universe. Does that not entail design? My friend, look yourself in the mirror. You’re the greatest proof of it. Miracles, you see them every day. Yet we don't stop and think about it sometimes. But here is something we must know. 

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. -Romans 1:20


And yes, I do accept that he loves me, because not only has he spoken to me, but I have also experienced these fulfilled promises that are written in his word Acts 2:38-39 as a result of obeying it. I’m sorry you don’t see it that way. But I see things differently because of the miracles I have experienced in my life. The best way to build knowledge is to dig in and get it for yourself.

((With that said, it’s your life and you can believe whatever you want, just wanted to correct you on the meaning of atheism.))

You have a right to your opinion, but don’t be so quick to debunk something you don’t understand just because you’ve never experienced it. And I respect your right to your belief. I just don't happen to agree. Have a good day. 

 

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